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[Music]

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hi this is mark o'connell and you're

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listening to that ufo podcast

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy and delighted to

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have with me on the podcast today

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retired u.s army colonel

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author lecturer and so much more mr john

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b alexander john welcome to the podcast

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thank you andy glad to be here

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it's very good to finally have you uh

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the listeners know that we had to

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reschedule due to my internet being cut

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off on the evening so no wacky

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conspiracies we think it was just the

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internet provider going out but i'm very

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glad you've given me the time to

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reschedule so i do appreciate that uh

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john a whole lot to cover with you and

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the time we have and i want to start

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right back in the beginning uh 1947 i

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believe you were 10 years old and in

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your school you gave a radio broadcast

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on ufos can you tell the listeners a

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little bit about that and what was your

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fascination with the subject at that

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early age

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well obviously that was a little

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different and that was an internal

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school thing not a

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external broadcast sort of thing but i

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went to a very unusual

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school it was a derivative of what

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became the university of wisconsin

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[Music]

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at la crosse

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at that time was a teaching school and

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they had

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a

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pigs

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uh so we were the ones that the student

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teachers got to teach

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but because of that we had access to

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resources that most don't and one of

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them was a broadcast

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and periodically about every week one of

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the students would go out and make a

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broadcast on the topic of their choice

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and it was just about that time that

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ufos were breaking and i made that the

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topic of my choice

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what was your fascination on the ufo

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subject in 1947 what was influencing you

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well you've got to remember that 47 uh

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the whole thing is just starting to hit

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public consciousness

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uh the

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sightings by ken arnold and things like

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that we're making the newspapers and so

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it was making uh national news at that

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time

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as i recall though that this was a kind

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of a skeptic thing that said oh skyhook

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that

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instead of being real ufos where we

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probably went but this was spawning

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balloons and

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must be balloons that are misidentified

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and all that

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world well some of us change some of it

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hasn't we still get the balloon

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explanation and in fact you know

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probably

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95 percent of sightings are

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misidentifications of something with a

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prosaic response

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but there is a residual that makes it

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really interesting

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yeah the more things change the more

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they stay the same um and was there

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anything at that early age that you'd

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had your own experiences with any ufos

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anything to do with the paranormal

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ghosts was it just it was in the news it

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was becoming

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not at that time

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all of that sort of came along much

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later

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as you know i did a book called reality

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denied

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in which i talked about a whole series

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of events that we have been involved in

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both

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from personal experience folks things we

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did in the military

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got

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more actively involved and

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so a lot of workshop just sort of

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happens around me

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yeah it certainly did and just before we

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get to that that military point in your

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life just to cover the the gap between

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school age and getting into the military

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was there anything that kept your

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interest in the ufo the paranormal at

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that time or was it something that waned

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but came back to you as as you can have

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those kind of teenage and teenage years

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i

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nature

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and i didn't find that

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fascinating as well so there was a

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you know i call the real world street

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component to it certainly

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as well as here

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was the ufo phenomenon that was just

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burgeoning at the time

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so during that time in the military

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let's get to it um you've talked about

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many experiences including with life

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after death and that other at the end

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was there any event or events that

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convinced you most that is something

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again that's so broad i'm not sure how

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to advance it

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well it's one of those serendipitous

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events

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that occurred

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um and this goes into the 1970s or

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thereabout

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i had met i was with kubler-ross and she

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and raymond moody were the first ones

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talking about continuation of kata and

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what became

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near-death studies

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i was getting ready to do a doctorate

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obligatory reports and things and i got

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a call one day i was in my office

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uh i was then assigned at fort mcpherson

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georgia in atlanta i got a call kind of

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out of the blue

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it's uh said this is elizabeth secretary

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well i guess precursor i had sent her a

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letter because i had attended a workshop

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called life death and transition

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which was very unique we can talk about

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that some of you wish but i had just

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sent her a note that said gee thanks it

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was very impactful

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and anyway and this is the days when you

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could you know go out and meet people at

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the gate and the secretary senator

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wisdom will be passing through tomorrow

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she's got two hours

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can you

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meet her

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of course

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and from that

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i said well i think i'm supposed to ask

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you a question

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and

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would you consider being the head of my

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doctoral committee and she said oh yes

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just kind of a surprise

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and so it was then the restaurant became

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history

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um

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the dissertation was on

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the changes that took place in people

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who attended the life death and

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transition

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workshops very impactful in that

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and of course they also

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led to some work in what they call the

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straight world

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including the development of children's

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hospice international which was first

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adjusting pediatric hospital

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and then

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ken rang and people were just starting

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to write books

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of course ray moody's life after life

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had come out

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and uh ions the international

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association for near-death studies

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was just coming into existence and i

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contacted them and went up and then

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joined the board and eventually became a

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president

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knowing all of the key people who were

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how was that sort of conversation

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addressed at that time within the

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military

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you know even talking about life after

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death the paranormal was it entertained

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at all

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now the military i remember i was

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on the freighters i was signed in

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washington but the stuff of the irons

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all was separate

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it was about the same time the remote

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viewing program was just kind of coming

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into existence

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and um

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so yeah and

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the whole back story was that i had

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attended a conference there in the dc

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area

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and um

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there was a

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wife of a colonel

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who was running the conference and said

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oh you must meet and mention another

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wife and it turned to me out uh

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dick stillwell stillwell

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was a retired four-star general who was

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then depsec deaf i believe in other

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words the number two guy in the pentagon

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and in

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my straight world job i was an inspector

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general

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and doing all of that but i got called

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up i said can you go and meet i'm a

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lieutenant colonel at the time

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and said

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you know arranged for me to meet with

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him

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and which i did alone now that's so

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highly unusual because normally

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lowly lieutenant colonels do not go see

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four stars or secretaries without we

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call head bobbers in other words other

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generals coming around who

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shake their head in agreement with

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whatever you were gonna say um but that

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was not the case

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and uh it was about 12 30

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and went up and had a very interesting

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talk with him and we were talking about

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some of it was about what the soviets

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were doing at the time because we were

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following some of that research this is

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again the bad old days

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and so there's the soviet union as

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opposed to russia

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and uh so we had an interesting

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discussion he says well who do you work

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for and i told him

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sweatshirt general

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so i went back to my office

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and about

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three or four hours later the chief of

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staff

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from the inspector general office came

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in and said oh tomorrow morning you

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don't work here anymore

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they had

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he had moved me just instantly to

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somebody that he thought would be

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compatible

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and that eventually emerged more with

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general subulban

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who was the head of intelligence

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security command and did have the remote

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viewing program it did have

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personal interests in a range of

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phenomena

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but we not often did some wild wonderful

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things there

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now that program was famously portrayed

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and given the hollywood treatment and

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the book in the movie the the men who

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stare at goats

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um

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wait wait wait no i got him

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as they say

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he took this much truth

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you wrote this much

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and then they made the movie

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yeah so you've got a tiny fragment of

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what actual truth was

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um

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and it was interesting because when the

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book came out it was a book by the same

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name first

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and i happened to pick it up and then

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reading and said damn that's me because

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he uses our real names in the book

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and um

290
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:35,920
so then i think he was on coast to coast

291
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:37,920
or something like that

292
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:38,880
and

293
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,839
talks about because in the book it's

294
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:43,920
like he's interviewing me

295
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,200
i asked he said blah blah blah blah i

296
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,519
have never met this guy

297
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:51,600
you know how can this be true

298
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:53,920
now there was a guy from the uk john

299
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:56,320
sargent with the filmmaker whom i had

300
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:58,560
met and did meet on a number of

301
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:01,440
occasions i had filled with

302
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,720
and anyway ronson wrote back and he

303
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:07,360
mentioned something so specific

304
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:09,760
about the house that said he must have

305
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,320
been here but nobody would know that

306
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,399
without knowing that so i went back and

307
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:16,399
i checked my notes and the founder

308
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:18,560
sergeant was here and had done an

309
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:19,600
interview

310
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:20,639
and um

311
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,040
i just said john watson so kind of like

312
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,279
he was a gripper so he just

313
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,040
happened to be

314
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:29,760
you know sitting by but he's in the book

315
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:32,480
he becomes like the primary

316
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:35,760
investigator or uh monitor and whatnot

317
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:36,839
so

318
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,399
um

319
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,800
like i say i had to admit that he had

320
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:42,880
been there

321
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:45,200
who apologized was running just a bit

322
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:46,160
today

323
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:47,360
but uh

324
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:50,399
anyway um

325
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:53,040
so yeah he was there but it's kind of

326
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,560
like somebody overhearing our

327
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:56,720
conversation and saying they're doing

328
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,720
the interview as opposed to you or

329
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:00,399
something like that

330
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:04,160
and um i did meet to greg

331
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:07,040
a guy who works with clooney

332
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,000
uh

333
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,720
and we address what's real was not real

334
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:12,240
in that and

335
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,800
that's about the comedy we we understood

336
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:16,720
that but

337
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,600
yeah

338
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:19,360
take it with a pinch of salt and that's

339
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,800
why i say the hollywood treatment

340
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,639
because i know what it's like that you

341
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,240
can you can give one sentence and a

342
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:26,320
whole movie and series of movies comes

343
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,519
off of that so

344
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,279
the movie itself if people haven't seen

345
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:31,040
it for me it's worth watching in terms

346
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,200
of a comedy but it's not historical

347
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,440
documentary and if i remember correctly

348
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,680
john at the start of the movie the first

349
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,839
thing that comes up it basically says

350
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:41,760
more of this is true than you would care

351
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:43,920
to imagine or you would even believe

352
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:46,399
and then go on to the movie

353
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,600
there were aspects of it yes

354
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,519
you know remote viewing was a real

355
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:53,760
program they addressed that

356
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:56,399
uh that uh with some of the metal

357
00:14:01,590 --> 00:13:58,720
bending that shows up in there yeah i

358
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,600
was doing that cloud busting yeah we did

359
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:03,040
that

360
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:03,839
for

361
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,519
the best of right now has never tried to

362
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:07,279
run through a wall that was one of the

363
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,920
you know a funny scene to start

364
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:11,680
and the other thing that i mentioned

365
00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:14,079
because they get into lsd research and

366
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:15,279
they say

367
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,160
not only no but hell no that by that

368
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:20,639
time anybody that was would have been

369
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,320
touching lsd i mean you would have lost

370
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,949
let me ask and you mentioned things like

371
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,279
the cloud busting and there was remote

372
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:33,199
viewing and you you see all sorts of

373
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,720
weird and wonderful things were

374
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:36,000
undertaken

375
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:39,120
what was the actual goal of the program

376
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:40,639
you know you're talking about what are

377
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,560
the soviets up to what what can we

378
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,639
possibly get from this was there an

379
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:46,800
objective you set out to achieve with

380
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,040
the program itself

381
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,760
well which the program are we talking

382
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:52,800
about

383
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,199
well just uh when you say we're talking

384
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:56,720
about the setup obviously of you know

385
00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:00,000
the remote viewing program for example

386
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:01,680
and you're taking away your west away

387
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,000
and you're told from tomorrow well

388
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,040
there were several aspects to it part of

389
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:09,680
it was research and development let's

390
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:12,639
you know can we understand the basics or

391
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:15,600
get a theoretical basis and how it works

392
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,199
the answer to that is no to this day

393
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,360
but they were doing straight research

394
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,199
and development so part of it was can

395
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,199
you do this

396
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:27,839
and the other aspect is because he had

397
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:30,320
guys like joel mcmonicle who were very

398
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:32,079
good naturals

399
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:36,720
actually targeting them against specific

400
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:38,480
targets

401
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:39,759
in

402
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:41,759
primarily and so it later they

403
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:44,720
progressed into drug posts and things of

404
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,000
that nature

405
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:47,839
now the problem from a scientific

406
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:51,040
perspective is can you come up with

407
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:54,639
a theoretical basis or understanding

408
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:57,120
of how you might access data at a

409
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,399
distance

410
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:00,880
and particularly when you're doing

411
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:03,440
precognitive and retrocognitive kinds of

412
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,320
things

413
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:06,880
transitioning time

414
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:08,959
so we don't

415
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:10,959
have a good grasp on that

416
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:13,120
at the same time had an operational

417
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:15,440
capability it was going against real

418
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:17,920
world targets and producing actionable

419
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,790
something we hear about now

420
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:25,040
is that there are factions within the

421
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:26,480
government especially in the u.s

422
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,079
government the halls of the pentagon

423
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,959
that given their religious beliefs

424
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:31,920
they

425
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,320
obfuscate and hinder any potential

426
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,720
progress in the study of uap and other

427
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,639
phenomena is this something you

428
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,800
encountered yourself during your time in

429
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:42,639
the military

430
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:44,240
well

431
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,320
35 years before osap or atap was in the

432
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:51,040
current program i had run

433
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,800
a somewhere we called advanced

434
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:54,959
theoretical physics

435
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:58,160
uh the reason for the name is what we

436
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,320
call foyer the freedom of information

437
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:01,759
act had just

438
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:04,559
come out and there were lots and lots of

439
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,880
people that's about ufos and that but

440
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,720
didn't think they would ask about

441
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:10,880
advanced theoretical physics or look for

442
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:13,439
it so that was the name

443
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:20,630
all of the findings that were released

444
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,520
yeah that's what we knew 35 years ago

445
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:25,439
i mean so there really wasn't a huge

446
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:28,480
stitch up the main difference was this

447
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:30,640
became a formalized program and actually

448
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,520
got funded we did not i had

449
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:35,200
worked for a number of years when we

450
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,640
went forward for funding it was deemed

451
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:40,880
too much of a risk

452
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,799
we went to sdi

453
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,039
you know as star wars or strategic

454
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:46,960
defense initiative

455
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,760
and had talked to the commanding general

456
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,679
who was running that program which was

457
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,120
the biggest

458
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:55,840
r d program in the department of defense

459
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:58,160
at the time

460
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:01,200
and i can definitely tell you the

461
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,520
planning space aliens had absolutely

462
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:04,799
nothing to do

463
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,080
with with the development of that

464
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:10,400
and uh when we got done i said well we'd

465
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:13,039
like to formalize the program get

466
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:15,919
funding and it was well you got my

467
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:18,320
attention

468
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,320
but i can't touch that

469
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,480
if i get caught

470
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:24,320
doing this

471
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:25,760
you know they're going well they're

472
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:27,840
already coming after us budget budget

473
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,640
was so big one of my favorite things and

474
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,720
when i was in the pentagon with people

475
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,280
i'm gonna go find the money

476
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:37,520
there are no pots of money just sitting

477
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,120
around in

478
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:41,200
stalls someplace in the pentagon it

479
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:42,799
means i'm going to take it from somebody

480
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:44,640
else's program

481
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:45,600
and

482
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:48,080
you'll get a credit so it's a zero-sum

483
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:51,760
game all the time and it was right

484
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,919
they were willing to

485
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,600
um

486
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:57,440
so if you can tell me what to look for

487
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,679
basically we can incorporate that in

488
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,160
algorithms

489
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:05,200
but uh basically nothing further came

490
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,039
about from that

491
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,200
during that time from from the end of

492
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:11,760
those programs that you were involved in

493
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,080
to atep and osap we were talking about

494
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:17,440
the 80s 90s and early 2000s did you ever

495
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:20,160
hear of any other attempted startups or

496
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,760
programs that would look at remote

497
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,720
viewing or its potential uses not what

498
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:26,960
i'm aware of but one of the questions

499
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:29,679
always comes up did it go dark

500
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:32,559
you know is there some ongoing program

501
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:35,440
and my position on that has been i doubt

502
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:37,120
it

503
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,720
and the reason

504
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:41,039
is that the talent pool was relatively

505
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:42,320
small

506
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,120
now

507
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:46,160
i want to differentiate between

508
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:47,919
individual interest institutional

509
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,640
responsibility which is one of my best

510
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:52,880
things to look at

511
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:55,600
that does not mean that there weren't

512
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:56,799
people

513
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:58,880
in department of defense various

514
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,160
agencies

515
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,640
going to remote viewers and saying we

516
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:05,280
look at xyz

517
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:08,640
that is very very different from what we

518
00:20:14,549 --> 00:20:11,440
call a program a record a formalized

519
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:14,559
program we have a funding line have all

520
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:16,960
kinds of oversight parameters that were

521
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,360
established to it

522
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:21,840
as and that's what was true under

523
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:23,919
stargate and his

524
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,320
prior incarnations

525
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:28,000
um

526
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,679
but

527
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:32,080
you know it's like ufos remote viewing

528
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,480
that people in the pentagon

529
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:36,960
have had psychic experiences just like

530
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:38,960
they have

531
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:41,520
you know across

532
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,480
of all of the population

533
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,240
so

534
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,120
from that they often develop by uh

535
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:51,679
things that see i'm interested

536
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:52,960
read books

537
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,559
let me go ask

538
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:57,280
you know joe mcmonagles will know paul

539
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:00,960
smith and some of the others there's a

540
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,200
organization called irva the

541
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:06,080
international remote viewing association

542
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,360
uh the

543
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:09,840
founding board member of

544
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,000
but those are public

545
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,400
and so from that you can

546
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:16,799
derive sources that you might choose to

547
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,240
uh to go out so i i'm sure that that

548
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,880
happens from time to time but again

549
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:25,280
that's different from

550
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:26,720
you know the government doing it one of

551
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:29,840
the things i point out

552
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,720
just did a recent talk on this and the

553
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:34,240
point is

554
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:35,360
rarely

555
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,320
are these programs top driven i mean

556
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:40,400
there's something compelling and

557
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:42,480
therefore it comes down from on high

558
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:43,520
it's a

559
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,000
much more likely as individuals who have

560
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:47,840
personal interest and

561
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:50,400
experience and push the

562
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:53,440
middle back up the chain of command

563
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,400
and get to the point and

564
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:58,960
this patient and we'll get into funding

565
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,840
and all that but you have to understand

566
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:03,760
how the funding process works it's

567
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:06,400
terribly very complex

568
00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:08,880
and you can move certain amounts of

569
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,880
money around there are some

570
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,880
discretionary funds

571
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:14,960
but then there's funding thresholds as

572
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:17,280
you get to bigger and bigger amounts

573
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,600
then you've got to go to higher and

574
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:21,600
higher levels and with that comes

575
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,880
oversight and just becomes more

576
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:26,720
difficult and

577
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,480
more administratively restrictive

578
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,320
so that makes sense that the smaller you

579
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:34,400
can keep a program with the less people

580
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,960
involved and the less budget required

581
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:38,400
the less oversight you're going to have

582
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:39,919
and the less eyes and ears you're going

583
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:42,559
to have on the program so you can almost

584
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,480
get it started but like you say keeping

585
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,480
that progression going and securing that

586
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,240
higher funding is much more difficult

587
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:49,919
yeah

588
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,240
probably sounds like a lot but you can

589
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:56,480
probably muck about under 20 million

590
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,760
dollars

591
00:23:02,549 --> 00:22:59,360
most of the time

592
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,559
and find covers of those individuals

593
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,640
uh seniors who are

594
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:06,960
willing to allow someone if you remember

595
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:10,960
the offset or atef program came in at 22

596
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:11,919
million

597
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:13,840
uh if you look at the remote viewing

598
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:16,159
program that was kind of around 20

599
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,960
million but that again was a program of

600
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:20,480
record and

601
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:23,039
was

602
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,640
you know did have some oversight on that

603
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:28,799
now let me ask john moving on slightly

604
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,880
skin walker ranch has played a part in

605
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:33,120
your life and am i correct in saying you

606
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:35,120
were you were working in some capacity

607
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:37,200
for mr bob bigelow when he acquired the

608
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:38,799
ranch is that correct

609
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,960
well i was physically with him the day

610
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,279
that he actually bought the ranch from

611
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:44,960
terry you know

612
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,630
anyway stayed in the hotel i stayed on

613
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,400
the ridgeline that night was the first

614
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:54,480
one to actually spend the night uh at

615
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:58,159
the ranch after he had acquired it

616
00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:00,240
now mr bigelow's a man that 20 million

617
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,159
dollars isn't uh isn't a large amount of

618
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,640
money to necessarily but he's got a real

619
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,400
passion for the subject and obviously

620
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,400
has put in a lot of time and money over

621
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:10,400
the over the years

622
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:13,039
what did you already know yourself about

623
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:16,720
the ranch before it was acquired

624
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:18,880
not a lot i mean we had heard the

625
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:21,919
stories he had talked to uh terry and we

626
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:22,799
knew

627
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:24,159
some of the back

628
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,080
folklore

629
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,960
but as far as you know all the stuff

630
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:30,720
that's come to light by the way it was

631
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:34,240
never skin walker ramps well lions

632
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:35,600
were yeah

633
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:37,919
the weddings

634
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:39,520
i'm sorry knits

635
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:42,159
had the rats that was the

636
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:45,279
title skid walker ranch got

637
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:46,880
attached after

638
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,919
um

639
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,760
bob had uh

640
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:51,840
not after he sold it but

641
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:55,360
after ned's had had dropped out of it

642
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,919
but it was just the ranch at the time

643
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:59,440
until we were doing it but some very

644
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:01,760
very strange things definitely happened

645
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:03,440
there

646
00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:06,000
what particular experiences

647
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:08,240
do you remember happening there or you

648
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:10,320
know what were others talking about that

649
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:12,320
really stood out to you as being

650
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,669
well i mean that's one that's so hard

651
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:21,840
just because there were so many

652
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:26,880
events that really did happen that were

653
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:30,080
you know verifiable

654
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:32,799
one of the stories that came up uh early

655
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,440
on with one with terry

656
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,159
before we had acquired it but uh

657
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,480
terry and his wife were there and they

658
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:42,559
were just developing the ranch

659
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,960
and looked out across the field it was

660
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:47,039
perfectly flat you could see for quite a

661
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:48,880
ways and here comes

662
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:50,159
a dog

663
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:52,480
paddling up there and they got closer

664
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:55,279
than that son of dog that's a wolf

665
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:57,919
and terry's pretty big guy

666
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:00,080
this thing walks up and

667
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:02,799
wolf's head is you know test level on

668
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:04,880
him which is really big

669
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:06,320
and says well somebody must have

670
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:09,440
domesticated a wolf

671
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:11,520
if you're ready to go to work and you

672
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:12,720
hear us just

673
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:15,440
yelling and what has happened is they

674
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:18,240
had been familiar with ranches you know

675
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:21,200
the pipe fences around

676
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:23,600
this thing had reached under

677
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,320
there with a 600 pound calf there

678
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:28,720
grabbed it by the snout and was trying

679
00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:29,520
to

680
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:32,799
pull it back uh under the fence

681
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:35,600
well terry grabs the 2x4 and hits it and

682
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:38,720
that just didn't do too much so he had a

683
00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:41,039
357 magnum

684
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:42,480
shot him

685
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:45,520
at point black range you know like from

686
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:48,080
me to the computer screen

687
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:49,279
can't miss

688
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:52,640
well that got him to drop the calf

689
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,320
and he went

690
00:26:58,950 --> 00:26:56,640
trotting off across the field well terry

691
00:27:02,310 --> 00:26:58,960
had an elk rifle

692
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:02,320
that was there with 258 grain bullets

693
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:04,240
very good shot

694
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:07,919
hits this thing and stuff

695
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:11,600
chunks of stuff or flying off the uh

696
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:12,880
the body

697
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:15,760
it goes on goes across the creek comes

698
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:18,080
up on the other side

699
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:19,840
disappears

700
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:22,799
they went over and picked up

701
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:25,200
the chunks of what would have been meat

702
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:27,279
and it's putrified

703
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,000
now remember it had just come off the

704
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:32,480
body and putrification normally takes a

705
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,159
lot longer so that was certainly one of

706
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:38,320
the war story

707
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:42,399
uh one that absolutely happened that was

708
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:43,760
critical

709
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:46,399
was the calving season

710
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:49,840
and uh terry went out what they would do

711
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:52,159
is he would find a newborn you would tag

712
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,159
it and weigh it

713
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:56,000
they tag it to identify it with the

714
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:57,919
mother

715
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:00,640
and he does that and he then drives

716
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:03,840
across this perfectly flat open area

717
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,960
finds another newborn tags it weighs it

718
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,399
comes back

719
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:10,880
calf one is dead

720
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,200
not only is cap one dead

721
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,440
of course the mother is going berserk

722
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:16,880
and all of that

723
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:19,039
but it's been eviscerated and

724
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:21,679
exsanguinated and

725
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,799
you know the most of the

726
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,880
innards and the material that had been

727
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,640
there were gone

728
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,880
the error had been sliced off the one

729
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:33,279
that had the time but it looked like as

730
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,159
clean as a laser cut or something

731
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:38,399
like that

732
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,960
we got notified immediately and uh

733
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:44,080
ornette

734
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,960
who was rgbm was up there by that day

735
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:49,840
and

736
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:52,960
we looked at all the possibilities on

737
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:55,840
how the animals kill you know bears big

738
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,799
cats

739
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,559
and there are some of those in the area

740
00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,720
but you kind of remember this is broad

741
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:01,840
daylight

742
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:04,240
you know 10 o'clock in the morning

743
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:06,720
between 10 and 11 in the morning

744
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:08,960
um

745
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,559
made absolutely no sense whatsoever that

746
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,320
uh

747
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,789
how could you do that now

748
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:21,039
the path phrase by the skeptic of all

749
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:23,440
the blood just went into the ground and

750
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,120
was absorbed

751
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:27,120
so in fact i talked to the guys up in

752
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,080
the ranches

753
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:30,559
there was a slaughterhouse nearby

754
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,520
so they went and got

755
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,120
buckets of blood

756
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,440
and came back and went to another place

757
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,520
and you poured it on the ground

758
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,760
and weeks later you would look you say

759
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:43,679
blood was poured on the ground here and

760
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:46,640
you did not see any of that you know

761
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:48,399
near the cap

762
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:49,679
um

763
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:52,559
yeah the stories just go on and on and

764
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:54,159
uh

765
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:01,590
we were had the ranch instrumented

766
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:02,480
no

767
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:07,600
more instrumentation we did but we had

768
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:10,320
cameras there that were facing uh out

769
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:11,919
towards the west

770
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:14,799
and there's one in which you have

771
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:18,399
say camera one here camera two is in

772
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:19,679
front of it

773
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:23,120
and both facing you know to the west

774
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:25,039
and we had an incident when we came and

775
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,440
we know when the incident happened

776
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:29,840
because these things had wires coming

777
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,320
down went underground back into the

778
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,760
trailer where everything was being

779
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:35,039
recorded

780
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:36,799
because what would happen if we'd watch

781
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:38,559
it and then we would

782
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,000
we had guys

783
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,399
that was their job was just to review

784
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:44,399
the videotape

785
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,480
well

786
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:48,720
controller camera two the one that's out

787
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:51,520
front the wires have been pulled off

788
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:54,480
with about 20 feet high

789
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:56,159
uh

790
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:58,399
the wires had come down the length of

791
00:31:01,990 --> 00:31:00,399
the pipe and you had about half a roll

792
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,000
of duct tape and if you ever work with

793
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,799
duct tape you know how sticky that stuff

794
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,039
is and how it's almost impossible yeah

795
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:09,039
that's all missing

796
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,080
uh also there's about a three foot chunk

797
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:15,039
of wire that's missing from it

798
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:18,399
in addition you've got um

799
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:21,360
uh the pvc what would happen went in

800
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,000
under the ground at pvc protecting out

801
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:26,399
the eu clamps the pvc has been pulled

802
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,840
blues

803
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:29,120
now

804
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:30,799
because of when the thing was pulled

805
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,320
loose we know when the event occurred

806
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,000
and when you went back and you look at

807
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:38,960
the table it turns out on camera one

808
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:41,760
that's looking at camera two

809
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:44,080
at the time of the incident it just so

810
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:46,240
happened that the cattle the working

811
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:50,080
ranch happened to be milling around

812
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:51,039
that

813
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,399
and they don't what we know is if

814
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:58,320
anybody approaches the cattle they

815
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:00,880
scatter automatically

816
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:03,360
so the point there is what should have

817
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:06,559
been on film totally wasn't yet this

818
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:08,799
extensive amount of damage

819
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:10,480
definitely occurred we know when it

820
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:11,919
occurred it

821
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,960
should have been on camera but it wasn't

822
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:16,799
was there a working theory as to what

823
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,640
was causing this because

824
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:20,240
it's fascinating when you hear about

825
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:21,760
these different events that happen at

826
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:24,559
the ranch but they almost seem at times

827
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:26,880
very immature

828
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,159
and chinese the short answer is no

829
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,559
and one of the problems is you have

830
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:35,279
these so many different phenomenas that

831
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:37,279
are ongoing

832
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:39,519
and i came up with something that i

833
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:43,279
called precognitive scenium phenomena

834
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:46,799
i refer to as an it just because i have

835
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,240
no way to

836
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:50,240
explain what it

837
00:32:54,010 --> 00:32:52,080
might be

838
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:54,020
but if i told the folks on

839
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:55,120
[Music]

840
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:57,760
you know the skin walker program

841
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:01,279
you are not in charge it is in charge

842
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:03,279
and it decides what you're going to do

843
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:04,159
and then when i said it was

844
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:10,149
it seemed to know how we were going to

845
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:11,840
respond

846
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:14,640
before the event occurred

847
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:17,600
and yeah we go ahead and oblige that

848
00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:20,720
and follow it from the way you would you

849
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,840
know any scientific

850
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,720
investigation

851
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:26,640
and then what would happen is

852
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,519
continually more since oh you like that

853
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:31,120
try this

854
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:32,960
and you get something

855
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,440
totally different

856
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,519
so it seems with the ranch it's very

857
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:39,840
much a case of the best we can do in a

858
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,000
sense is observe

859
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,120
and the the consequence of that is is

860
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:47,279
very random and hard to predict

861
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,679
were there any experiments or any any

862
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:52,240
tests carried out that did provoke a

863
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:54,640
stronger reaction than normal

864
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:57,279
well yeah it provoked and like i say it

865
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:58,880
seemed to know

866
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,760
how we were going to investigate before

867
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:04,080
we thought of it

868
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:07,760
and with that guy it just always kept

869
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,399
one step ahead

870
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,159
and was there ever a time where the

871
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,839
reaction was

872
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:15,359
frightening

873
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,589
no no now

874
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:23,430
wasn't frightening no it didn't scare

875
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:26,720
the people uh there are some who seem to

876
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:29,440
be more sensitive to the phenomenon than

877
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:30,480
others

878
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,040
and if you've watched the secret of the

879
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:35,119
skin walker ranch they've had several

880
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:38,480
people who have experienced physical

881
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:41,440
injuries that they do attribute

882
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:45,200
back to it most of which cannot be

883
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:47,520
explained

884
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:49,839
personally i have not had that

885
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:52,320
experience and i was back up when we

886
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:53,520
filmed

887
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:55,839
the uh three the

888
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:58,400
session that actually just aired

889
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:00,320
a couple weeks ago

890
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,109
i never felt fear

891
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:09,359
in that um

892
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,000
one of our guys who in fact they had

893
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:14,320
seen they were out there in the old

894
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,240
homestead area that people watch the

895
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:18,480
program will know about

896
00:35:23,829 --> 00:35:20,960
and there's a whole bunch of russian

897
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:23,839
olives uh trees out there

898
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:25,200
and they were watching and they could

899
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,359
see something go through it all if they

900
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,920
didn't use the program what i said was

901
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,680
it was like predator if you remember

902
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,599
predator movie

903
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:36,000
when the predator was it was just kind

904
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:39,280
of you'd see distortions yeah but not

905
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:42,720
the creepy crawler himself but you would

906
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:46,079
get uh destruction and so that was sort

907
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:48,320
of what was described

908
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:50,800
and a message that came again

909
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:54,160
telepathically we are watching you

910
00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:57,119
now there wasn't any explanation were we

911
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:59,599
or what they're watching for or anything

912
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,640
like that

913
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:02,720
there was a clear message that was

914
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:04,720
important

915
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,480
what are your thoughts on the work being

916
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,320
done you mentioned brandon fuegel and

917
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:10,240
his team what your thoughts on the work

918
00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:17,030
what's your follow-up question

919
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,040
so compared to the time where you worked

920
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,880
on the ranch you know or you were

921
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:23,200
involved with the ranch with mr bigelow

922
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:26,480
do you feel brandon and his team are

923
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:28,240
carrying out the experiments in a way

924
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,560
that they are going to progress

925
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,640
the the investigations

926
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:34,880
well i think they're doing i mean you

927
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:38,079
seem to be prepared to put a lot more

928
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:41,599
money into it and really follow up on it

929
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:42,560
um

930
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,720
i'm not very optimistic they will find a

931
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:46,960
solution because i think yet

932
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:50,079
this keeps morphing and and staying

933
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:51,440
ahead

934
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,800
but they do obviously see things that

935
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:57,040
aren't very

936
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:59,280
unexplainable

937
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:00,800
and

938
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,880
i do think the pharma obviously

939
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:04,880
[Music]

940
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:07,119
it is not

941
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,400
you know concentrate well it's

942
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:10,800
concentrated in the area but it's not

943
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,560
you know confined

944
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,800
to the parameters

945
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:16,480
you know where the ranches are the whole

946
00:37:20,829 --> 00:37:19,599
area and this has been going on for

947
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:20,839
decades to

948
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:23,920
centuries so maybe it's ariel and there

949
00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:28,160
are other places in the world that have

950
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,560
similar kinds of philemon this is just

951
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:33,119
one where individuals have picked up on

952
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:36,400
us are instrumenting and documenting uh

953
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:38,400
in ways that

954
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:39,920
others

955
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,079
have not

956
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:44,640
captured the imagination so to speak

957
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:46,880
you mentioned those other places around

958
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:49,040
the world where you have these areas of

959
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:50,720
high strangeness maybe more of a

960
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:53,359
concentration have you managed to get to

961
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:54,560
these yourself

962
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:57,680
yeah no i i'd recommend youtube there

963
00:38:02,470 --> 00:37:59,520
will be a

964
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:02,480
plethora of you know videos that are up

965
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:03,920
from different places with people

966
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:06,320
putting it out the difference

967
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:08,400
between the ranch

968
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,079
and what bob and brandon are doing

969
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,160
is willing to put the resources

970
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,560
necessary into doing

971
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:18,720
these kind of experiment

972
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,349
give an example though i've done a lot

973
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:25,920
of work in brazil

974
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:28,960
um and you know have have written

975
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,440
to that and some of the things we've

976
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:34,079
seen there are sort of equally

977
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:37,200
unexplainable the difference there's two

978
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:40,640
differences one is nobody's putting

979
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:43,040
a lot of resources in specifically

980
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,280
studying the kind of thing

981
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:47,440
you also got to remember brazil's a

982
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,160
really really big place

983
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:52,240
most people have no idea how big the

984
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:53,440
country is

985
00:38:57,670 --> 00:38:54,880
um

986
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:57,680
but having said that there is a

987
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,079
difference that i think is critical and

988
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:02,560
applies to many of things we

989
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:04,560
have discussed in wildernesscon

990
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:07,680
now the people that i've dealt with are

991
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,079
at very high levels in government and

992
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:12,480
industry and whatnot

993
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,599
highly educated and in traditional

994
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:17,760
institutions

995
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,160
that are very akin to western

996
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:22,240
universities none of them are actual

997
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:25,520
western universities but they're there

998
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:26,720
but that

999
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:29,520
clearly comes from a materialistic point

1000
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:30,960
of view which

1001
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:34,400
dominates western education

1002
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:37,760
having said that throughout the country

1003
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:40,400
you have a

1004
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:43,599
general acceptance of spiritism

1005
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,800
and so they're they are used to

1006
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:48,720
incorporating it from the one i find

1007
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:51,200
interesting is people

1008
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,280
again educated

1009
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,480
the western materialistic viewpoint who

1010
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:58,400
inculcate

1011
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:59,760
spiritism

1012
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:01,200
views

1013
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:03,760
and don't have any problem with that

1014
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:07,280
that what i like to say is in the west

1015
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:09,280
i've dealt with shamans all over the

1016
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:12,720
world but the idea of the real world and

1017
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:14,319
the spirit world

1018
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:17,200
like those are separate and distinct

1019
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:19,040
as opposed to

1020
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,720
the shamans we see it much more of a

1021
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:23,040
continuum that moves

1022
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,880
seamlessly uh between them so

1023
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:28,640
i think there's a huge difference in

1024
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:31,520
world view it's very important as to how

1025
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:34,800
you address many of these topics

1026
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:36,480
it certainly seems especially in the

1027
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:38,560
western world that that connection to

1028
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:40,240
the spiritual is something we've lost

1029
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:41,440
over time

1030
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:43,040
and as you say when you hear about these

1031
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:44,880
other cultures that still have that

1032
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:47,040
connection that they can see it as being

1033
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:49,920
one and the same and it makes that

1034
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:52,079
understanding or belief in different

1035
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:55,599
phenomena much more palatable doesn't it

1036
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:58,480
well let me give a specific example we

1037
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,790
going to voodoo ceremonies

1038
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:07,280
and first of all voodoo

1039
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,839
is not a religion per se it's an entire

1040
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:11,280
way of life

1041
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:13,680
and it's inculcated in everything

1042
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:17,040
so that when you went out their idea of

1043
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:18,960
spirits and and everything just

1044
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:20,720
permeates everything so

1045
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:23,520
if you found fruit you would find wild

1046
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:25,680
pineapples or whatever

1047
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,520
and that you're going to pick you would

1048
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,800
ask permission

1049
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:30,240
you know that

1050
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:31,440
let's say

1051
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:32,960
you know even

1052
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:35,520
you know in this case vegetative objects

1053
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,640
and others

1054
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,200
have spirits and spirit related to it so

1055
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:42,000
you have this interaction with it

1056
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,200
um

1057
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:45,040
this is true

1058
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:48,880
in many many places in the world and yet

1059
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:51,440
we're western view seems to be very

1060
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:54,800
isolated very much very narrowly focused

1061
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:55,599
on

1062
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,200
materialism

1063
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:59,359
we look for the god particle the

1064
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:01,599
assumption that you cut things into

1065
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,240
smaller and smaller pieces and soon

1066
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:05,760
we'll get to

1067
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:08,319
you know i just noticed they're about to

1068
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:11,680
start the large hadron collider again we

1069
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:15,760
put billions of dollars into that

1070
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:18,079
where as the rest of the world

1071
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:20,640
you know their their world view is very

1072
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:21,680
different

1073
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,359
well they're done a lot of work in

1074
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,359
africa we've been in north south east

1075
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:27,200
west africa

1076
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,400
and the point is i forget the exact

1077
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,319
numbers but you know how many doctors

1078
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:34,560
and other medical

1079
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:37,119
people that you have in these western

1080
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:40,480
you know europe and america

1081
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,560
in much of africa you will have one

1082
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:46,560
medical personnel not necessarily a

1083
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:48,560
doctor but you know

1084
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:50,720
a nurse or a practitioner or something

1085
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:53,599
for 10 000 people

1086
00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:54,880
therefore

1087
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,800
when you're going to deal with things

1088
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:58,640
like illness you're going to approach it

1089
00:43:02,069 --> 00:43:00,240
a lot differently you're not going to

1090
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:02,079
have

1091
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:05,040
access to allopathic medicine lots of

1092
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:06,720
drugs and things that

1093
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,079
some areas you do but for much of the

1094
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:13,200
continent you don't the other aspect

1095
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:14,640
there is

1096
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:17,599
most americans have no idea

1097
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:20,079
how big africa is

1098
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:22,880
i've got a map and i used to give

1099
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:26,000
presentations on africa itself literally

1100
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:28,400
wrote the book on it but uh the point

1101
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:30,079
was you can take

1102
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:33,599
basically all of the continents

1103
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,000
and fit them into africa

1104
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:38,640
you know we're all populated with i mean

1105
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:44,150
i want to ask john uh

1106
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,200
nasa are now launching their own albeit

1107
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:49,680
with very small funding independent

1108
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:52,319
investigation into uap

1109
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:55,520
what is your take on in 2022

1110
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:57,359
nasa getting further involved in the

1111
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,440
study of the ufos

1112
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:01,920
welcome to the club

1113
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:02,960
no

1114
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,800
until very recently in fact i'm telling

1115
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,640
us bill nelson took over as the

1116
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:12,319
administrator

1117
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,359
their position has been overtly hostile

1118
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:17,200
to the jury now this doesn't mean that

1119
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:18,800
you didn't have astronauts and

1120
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:22,560
individuals who had some interests and

1121
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:25,280
but as an institution

1122
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:27,839
they were very very negative

1123
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:29,520
on the topic

1124
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,240
and that's unfortunate i think now the

1125
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:35,200
evidence has become overwhelming

1126
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:37,280
and they're going to following suit

1127
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:39,920
because of what gop is doing

1128
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:41,040
now

1129
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:42,880
do not believe

1130
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:44,880
that because

1131
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:47,440
the department of defense says the uap

1132
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:48,960
task force

1133
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:51,760
but that is widely accepted

1134
00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:53,599
there are plenty of people in there who

1135
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:54,720
just

1136
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:57,760
it's like project blue book

1137
00:45:02,470 --> 00:44:59,839
and the condo report the idea of the

1138
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,480
condom report putting it out was to make

1139
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:05,280
this go away you know we just don't want

1140
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:07,920
to deal with it and i can understand why

1141
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:10,160
these are pretty good reasons

1142
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,240
um

1143
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,880
i you know i've said

1144
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,960
my other

1145
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:19,119
venues that you know i i think the

1146
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:21,520
phenomenons we're dealing with are more

1147
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,920
complex than cancer

1148
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:25,839
so the point is when you're going to put

1149
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,560
a small amount of resources against it

1150
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,560
what's your probability that you're

1151
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:32,640
going to be able to come up with you

1152
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:35,119
know definitive answers

1153
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,960
i think dod has a role to play but not

1154
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:40,480
b-roll

1155
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:43,760
uh it is far bigger than anything now i

1156
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:46,960
think their role is twofold one

1157
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,680
is how do these things interacting with

1158
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,319
their platform planes and that and two

1159
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,880
they bring sensor systems

1160
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,160
that can

1161
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:58,640
make recordings that are not generally

1162
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,560
available to the public so from a

1163
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:02,240
scientific perspective that's

1164
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:04,319
interesting

1165
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:05,920
but

1166
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,920
if you're a steward of resources how

1167
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:09,760
much are you going to spend

1168
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:13,040
towards solving a problem that

1169
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:14,560
really is not

1170
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:17,359
a significant problem to you

1171
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,400
know

1172
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:20,960
we've just come out of 20 years

1173
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,599
of armed conflict

1174
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,440
and what percent of your resources you

1175
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:27,599
know put on this on something

1176
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:31,119
that you have a very low probability of

1177
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:33,040
understanding

1178
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:37,440
the other aspect that is non-trivial

1179
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:39,200
is

1180
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:47,280
the devil it's demonic and all that and

1181
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:49,839
that's not trivial and we've seen that

1182
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:52,800
that was prevalent in the uh remote

1183
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:55,200
hearing program as well

1184
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:57,920
i know that louis alessandro has had

1185
00:47:01,510 --> 00:47:00,319
contact with senators some of them will

1186
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:01,520
say

1187
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:03,680
you're doing god's work and all that and

1188
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,400
the others you're going to go to hell

1189
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:09,440
not supposed to deal with this

1190
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:11,280
you mentioned bill nelson the nasa

1191
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:13,520
administrator now in his previous role

1192
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:15,520
within government he was briefed on the

1193
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,480
uap subject and he seems to be friendly

1194
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,559
to the subject as well which is which is

1195
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:22,319
great

1196
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,040
nasa already would have one would

1197
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:27,440
presume a lot of very good data using

1198
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:29,200
those sensors you mentioned and those

1199
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:31,920
recordings is that something you think

1200
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:34,319
that people in the uap task force or the

1201
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:37,359
aoi msg are going to get access to that

1202
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:42,950
frankly i doubt it and one of the

1203
00:47:47,349 --> 00:47:45,200
problems is just

1204
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:47,359
you know the amount of data this is a

1205
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:50,480
problem we had in something called ozen

1206
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:51,760
open source

1207
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:54,800
intelligence it's just the pure volume

1208
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,200
of information available

1209
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,440
knowing what you're looking for and

1210
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:01,200
where to go find it because remember

1211
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,280
what you're talking about

1212
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:05,520
are generally anomalous events in other

1213
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:07,200
words things that happened for a short

1214
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,720
period of time

1215
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,200
that may or may not have been reported

1216
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:13,359
they didn't interact with some system

1217
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:14,400
that

1218
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:17,920
probably didn't get reported at all we

1219
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:19,599
talked about some of

1220
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:22,480
department of defense like that but

1221
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:23,520
um

1222
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,359
how much are you going to

1223
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:28,000
again spend resources again

1224
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,079
all of these things from a funding

1225
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:32,960
perspective or a zero-sum game

1226
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:36,000
so my point there is if you're going to

1227
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,599
study these things

1228
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,760
and personally i think you should but if

1229
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:41,280
you're going to do that what are you not

1230
00:48:48,630 --> 00:48:46,950
i get you and like you say they're

1231
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:48,640
they're very very small amounts in the

1232
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:50,240
grand scheme of things when it comes to

1233
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:53,040
budgets and amounts that are generally

1234
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:54,800
throw away sums of money that aren't

1235
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:57,200
going to be missed to to make something

1236
00:49:02,630 --> 00:48:59,520
go away or at least find nothing to

1237
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,640
pursue well what what uh

1238
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:04,880
with blue balcony air force just wanted

1239
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:06,880
to make it go away we do not want to

1240
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:07,839
commit

1241
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:10,720
you know we the officers who had even

1242
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:12,720
though it was part-time job for the vast

1243
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:14,559
majority of them

1244
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:17,280
but they had to take reports and drain

1245
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:18,800
the lab

1246
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,880
just make that go away

1247
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:22,480
what you're looking at from a pure

1248
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,319
business perspective what's the return

1249
00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:26,640
on investment

1250
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:29,040
when you're dealing with phenomenology

1251
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:31,280
the probabilities are actually pretty

1252
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,549
have you yourself john never had any

1253
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:38,880
interesting conversations with those

1254
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:41,599
former astronauts or people at nasa

1255
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:43,599
about the ufo subject that they've just

1256
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:46,559
not been comfortable coming forward with

1257
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:49,520
oh we gotta remember ed mitchell was a

1258
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,240
personal friend he sort of got boards

1259
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:54,880
together and had lots of discussion uh

1260
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:57,680
the one area that we agreed to disagree

1261
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:00,079
on i think it was roswell

1262
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:02,880
but that another one who said he would

1263
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:06,000
come forward and talk to story musgrave

1264
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:10,960
it's been a considerable amount of time

1265
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:14,079
and also interestingly he was one who

1266
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:16,000
was more involved in

1267
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:18,000
you know some of the black programs i

1268
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:19,440
would have

1269
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:21,440
kept the satellite capabilities and

1270
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:23,680
maintenance and things like that

1271
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:27,119
but he was very open to

1272
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:34,470
but but you're back the difference here

1273
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:37,359
again is the personal interest versus

1274
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:40,000
institutional responsibility and what

1275
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:42,079
nelson is doing

1276
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:43,680
is saying

1277
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,640
you know

1278
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:46,160
institutionally

1279
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:49,280
we agree to take this on albeit

1280
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:50,240
you know

1281
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:52,559
see if you're going to go to mars

1282
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:55,359
you might want to return to

1283
00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:59,040
the bone and then step onto mars of that

1284
00:51:01,510 --> 00:51:00,079
so

1285
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,520
if you're going to do that you're going

1286
00:51:06,069 --> 00:51:03,599
to commit a lot of resources by the way

1287
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:06,079
the apollo program when it was up

1288
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:08,960
was uh four percent

1289
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,880
of the uh uh budget government budget at

1290
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:14,160
the time

1291
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:17,599
uh right now nasa is closer to about

1292
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:19,280
0.4

1293
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:20,800
so you're talking about

1294
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:22,880
tremendous amount of increase so you've

1295
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,800
now got to go to the public and make the

1296
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:25,680
case

1297
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:29,040
that says if i'm going to study this

1298
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,000
you know

1299
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:32,240
here's why we're doing it and how it

1300
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,359
ought to be

1301
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:35,760
of interest and what the potential

1302
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:38,880
return on investment is

1303
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,400
and do you think there's an issue with

1304
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:43,040
the timing right now of of this because

1305
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:45,839
the public are seeing rising prices on

1306
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:49,040
fuel electric gas food and obviously the

1307
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:51,760
ukraine russian crisis that it's an easy

1308
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:53,200
way to make a subject like this

1309
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,040
potentially go away again because

1310
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,200
aren't going to be up for it are they

1311
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:01,280
i'm not sure what you're paying for

1312
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:04,880
leader for petrol in the uk right now

1313
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:08,000
but uh our gas across the board here is

1314
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:09,839
you know over five dollars we use

1315
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:13,760
gallons of course but um

1316
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:16,240
yeah that's what people worry about

1317
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,400
we're around about two pounds a liter at

1318
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:20,240
the minute almost

1319
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:21,119
yeah

1320
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:25,599
what it was a year ago uh over a year

1321
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:28,480
ago so it's uh it's pricey and and i've

1322
00:52:32,069 --> 00:52:30,079
had this conversation with colleagues

1323
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,079
and friends of mine about how in the uk

1324
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:34,640
can we push this conversation forward

1325
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,040
and i've made the point unfortunately

1326
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:39,040
right now the general public don't want

1327
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:41,520
to have a conversation about ufos and

1328
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:43,040
the what might be

1329
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:45,040
because they care about the the gas and

1330
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:46,720
electric prices going up again we're

1331
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:49,119
hearing in october and january and the

1332
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:50,960
cost of our cost of living so the

1333
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:53,040
conversation just falls so far down the

1334
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:54,720
pecking order

1335
00:52:59,030 --> 00:52:57,280
well the difference is between yeah i'm

1336
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:59,040
interested i'm willing to talk about

1337
00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:00,800
that versus

1338
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:02,559
not only am i willing to talk about that

1339
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:08,790
and how do you see that changing is that

1340
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,960
going to have to then be a private

1341
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:12,960
organization investigating like the

1342
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,200
galileo project seeking

1343
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:17,599
third-party funding

1344
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,760
or again is it going to be a case of a

1345
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:21,119
lot of different things have to fall

1346
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:22,559
into place

1347
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:24,400
again

1348
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:26,720
what i have stated and stated repeatedly

1349
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:28,960
what we're looking at is at least as

1350
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:31,359
complex as cancer

1351
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:33,920
so you start multiplying the amounts of

1352
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:37,599
money that we put into that into

1353
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:40,480
hundreds of millions of dollars to

1354
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:43,839
billions in that research and yeah we've

1355
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:44,720
made

1356
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:46,960
you know substantial increases in many

1357
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:49,760
areas but we certainly haven't cured

1358
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,720
cancer by any stretch of the imagination

1359
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:54,559
so if you're looking at a problem that's

1360
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:56,480
that complex

1361
00:54:02,549 --> 00:53:59,680
of you know the few millions that we're

1362
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:02,559
putting into this research interesting

1363
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:06,160
you will probably make some advances

1364
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:06,610
um

1365
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:09,520
[Music]

1366
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,720
yeah no

1367
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:12,800
well i'll tell you i have slides that

1368
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:14,079
i've talked about

1369
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,119
how i think it needs to be approached

1370
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,200
digression let me know but

1371
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:21,119
i said what you ought to look at is the

1372
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,760
human genome

1373
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:26,160
and that's one where you had billions

1374
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,880
and billions of possibilities

1375
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,359
well the difference there is we had

1376
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,440
international cooperation

1377
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:35,760
you did have the best and brightest many

1378
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:38,480
universities involved

1379
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:41,760
and the key issue is data sharing

1380
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:45,359
because the problem with phenomena now

1381
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,559
is

1382
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:48,720
having data in whatever area you're

1383
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:50,079
working on

1384
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:52,240
is the thing that's probably going to be

1385
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:54,480
directly attributable to whether or not

1386
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:57,440
you continue funding and you keep you

1387
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:00,160
know they're competing for the same

1388
00:55:04,470 --> 00:55:03,280
minuscule funding sources

1389
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:04,480
so

1390
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:06,559
until we say if we don't say this is

1391
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,359
serious we'll look at it then i would

1392
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,680
look at you know and the answer with the

1393
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:13,520
human genome problem is they came ahead

1394
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:15,280
of schedule and the

1395
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,559
under budget were really unique for huge

1396
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:21,119
scientific ventures these days

1397
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,599
but i think that's um the approach that

1398
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:25,839
you've got to take and again the issue

1399
00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:32,390
before we go into listener questions

1400
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:34,720
john i want to ask you about the the us

1401
00:55:39,910 --> 00:55:37,359
hearings that have taken place in the

1402
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:39,920
last couple of weeks and months um and

1403
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,160
also some of the legislation that may be

1404
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:43,760
coming in and we're getting updates on

1405
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:46,720
that almost daily at the moment um

1406
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:49,359
for yourself a few things to cover then

1407
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:51,839
is there any one particular or any

1408
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,079
departments particularly that you would

1409
00:56:02,150 --> 00:55:56,160
have testify in a hearing

1410
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:03,270
uh

1411
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:06,640
i have no idea and the problem here is

1412
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:08,640
it gets so emotional

1413
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:11,280
uh the united states we worry more about

1414
00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:13,920
having our guns and children

1415
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,799
uh it is just absolutely tragic i'm

1416
00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:18,480
firmly

1417
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:21,040
and believe that uh you know weapons of

1418
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:23,599
war have no

1419
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:26,079
basis and ought to be in the civilian

1420
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:28,880
society my pet response to most of them

1421
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,789
um

1422
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,880
now i don't know how you're gonna

1423
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:40,960
change america and i don't use any one

1424
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,000
institution to do it and

1425
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:47,760
i can say our congress does not have the

1426
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:51,280
intestinal fortitude to even begin to

1427
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:53,280
take on the fellow yeah they did there's

1428
00:58:32,789 --> 00:56:55,040
a

1429
00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:32,799
sensor systems

1430
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:35,680
because you don't want to tell potential

1431
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:37,839
adversary what you can see and what you

1432
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:39,040
can't see

1433
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:42,160
and there's real anomalies here but

1434
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,720
having said that we are getting it but

1435
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:46,319
there are ways

1436
00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:49,119
to sanitize the information and get it

1437
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:51,920
out i think among the things just is

1438
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:54,720
what's the prevalency

1439
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:57,359
of the interactions that they're seeing

1440
00:59:02,549 --> 00:59:00,400
and the other problem of course is

1441
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:02,559
from government perspective i mean

1442
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:05,680
that's this much of it this is a global

1443
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:06,559
issue

1444
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,200
and people are having these interactions

1445
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:11,280
as well what the government does bring

1446
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:12,720
to the table

1447
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:15,920
again are really advanced sensor systems

1448
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:18,799
and in some cases brain power if they

1449
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:20,960
want to do that that's what i think we

1450
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:22,720
should do is get the best and brightest

1451
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:27,430
why do you think you mentioned those

1452
00:59:33,589 --> 00:59:30,160
other countries that the us leads the

1453
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:33,599
way in the ufo conversation right now

1454
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:36,000
because outside of the us it seems

1455
00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:37,760
relatively quiet we've just had the

1456
00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:40,160
civilian hearings in brazil

1457
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,440
the uk

1458
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:43,760
as a country the conversation is almost

1459
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:46,480
non-existent unfortunately still

1460
00:59:49,589 --> 00:59:48,240
why do you think the us

1461
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:49,599
is still at the forefront of the

1462
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:50,960
conversation

1463
00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:53,040
i i don't i'm not sure i'd agree with

1464
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:54,319
that

1465
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:57,359
and if you look at you know what's been

1466
01:00:02,630 --> 01:00:00,160
reported from the reports that uk in

1467
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:02,640
particular has released but you look at

1468
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:05,200
other other governments a lot of it in

1469
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:07,440
brazil in chile

1470
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:13,670
i think there are many of the officials

1471
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:15,520
are worried about the giggle factor

1472
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:17,280
which is still

1473
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:20,000
you know unfortunately prevalent

1474
01:00:25,030 --> 01:00:22,799
uh so i don't think we're leading yet i

1475
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:25,040
think what you are saying has more to do

1476
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:28,400
with the amount of mass media that we

1477
01:00:34,630 --> 01:00:31,599
have and it has become more popular so

1478
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:34,640
the problem with that

1479
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,880
is you get a phenomenal amount of crap

1480
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:40,559
that comes along

1481
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:43,280
with this as well so one of the issues

1482
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:45,440
is discerning

1483
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:46,880
what's

1484
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:50,319
real what not versus rumors that run

1485
01:00:54,829 --> 01:00:51,520
rampant

1486
01:00:57,510 --> 01:00:54,839
one of the downsides of

1487
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,520
classification has been that if you

1488
01:01:03,349 --> 01:00:59,440
can't see into the box

1489
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:03,359
then the public makes huge assumptions

1490
01:01:10,870 --> 01:01:06,559
about what could possibly be there

1491
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:12,230
i i put out

1492
01:01:18,309 --> 01:01:15,440
back when when we were doing the study

1493
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:18,319
uh with the 1980s

1494
01:01:23,589 --> 01:01:21,280
the vast majority

1495
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:23,599
of the information even about things the

1496
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:25,200
government had seen

1497
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:26,640
was in

1498
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:28,880
the public domain

1499
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:32,799
uh what was not there again gets back to

1500
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:34,319
how did you get it

1501
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,789
i've heard you john on a previous

1502
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,040
interview say that we aren't at the

1503
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:45,599
point of even asking the right questions

1504
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:48,240
or knowing what the right questions are

1505
01:01:53,190 --> 01:01:50,880
if you did have one question that you

1506
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:53,200
could ask and get answered

1507
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:54,640
what would that be

1508
01:01:59,430 --> 01:01:56,960
i i have no idea

1509
01:02:01,910 --> 01:01:59,440
i i really don't i could ask that a lot

1510
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:01,920
not just one question but

1511
01:02:06,230 --> 01:02:03,280
the last

1512
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,240
line of my ufo book everyone

1513
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:08,079
said

1514
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:10,160
we are at the front end of the flatworm

1515
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:12,160
we're not having to i don't think to

1516
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:14,160
find

1517
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:16,319
what these phones are we're not at the

1518
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:19,359
point of asking the right questions yet

1519
01:02:25,589 --> 01:02:23,200
um now one of the key issues like

1520
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:25,599
opening slides that i use at all

1521
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:26,880
briefings

1522
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:29,200
and it covers many of the topics that we

1523
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:31,039
we've talked about here

1524
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:34,000
but from ufos being one of course the

1525
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:35,920
abduction phenomena

1526
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:39,119
uh remote viewing psychokinesis had lots

1527
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:40,799
of work there

1528
01:02:45,029 --> 01:02:42,720
fire walking

1529
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:45,039
post-mortem communication

1530
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:46,240
i

1531
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:51,200
etc etc

1532
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:53,359
even interspecies communication

1533
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:57,760
potentially sense squash or any of them

1534
01:03:01,910 --> 01:02:59,680
it's my belief

1535
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:01,920
that these things are all interrelated

1536
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,319
and that consciousness

1537
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:06,640
is the key component

1538
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:09,359
we go back to max planck

1539
01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:12,799
who addressed this and said

1540
01:03:18,069 --> 01:03:15,760
you know consciousness is primary now

1541
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:18,079
there's a whole brain mind

1542
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:21,920
continuum and debate that's going on it

1543
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:24,799
is popular to think that the mind

1544
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:27,280
generates consciousness

1545
01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:29,359
as opposed to maybe consciousness

1546
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:32,000
generates the mind and generates all

1547
01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:34,799
physical things after that there's no

1548
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,960
looking at quantum physics somehow

1549
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,960
looking at quite differently than we

1550
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:40,880
have to the path

1551
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:42,960
i do not believe that the brain and the

1552
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:46,240
mind or the same thing by any stretch of

1553
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:47,760
the imagination

1554
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:49,920
so we're gonna have to come to a better

1555
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:52,799
understanding of consciousness

1556
01:03:58,789 --> 01:03:55,119
um

1557
01:04:00,309 --> 01:03:58,799
i also end some of my uh talks when it

1558
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:00,319
says uh

1559
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:02,720
this does get maybe a bit political but

1560
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:04,559
it says yes you are your brother's

1561
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:06,160
keeper

1562
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:07,280
and i

1563
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:10,400
we keep talking about globalists now

1564
01:04:15,190 --> 01:04:12,640
being you know

1565
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:15,200
terrible thing globally my notion is if

1566
01:04:18,789 --> 01:04:16,880
you're thinking globally you're thinking

1567
01:04:20,950 --> 01:04:18,799
too small

1568
01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:20,960
that what we're dealing with is

1569
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:22,799
universal

1570
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,680
and uh yeah these interactions which you

1571
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:27,599
do

1572
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:33,349
john i've got a lot of interest in

1573
01:04:36,309 --> 01:04:34,880
listener questions and i want to try and

1574
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:36,319
get some of these answered from you if

1575
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:38,400
you don't mind so we'll bounce about a

1576
01:04:40,630 --> 01:04:39,839
little bit with the listener questions

1577
01:04:42,309 --> 01:04:40,640
here

1578
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:42,319
and apologies if i've not got to yours

1579
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:44,480
because a lot of them were sent and so

1580
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:46,160
maybe we'll get john back on in future

1581
01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:48,079
to answer some more of those

1582
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:51,200
john the first question was from tim

1583
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:53,760
tim asks do you believe the wilson memo

1584
01:05:00,390 --> 01:04:56,480
is legitimate if so why would admiral

1585
01:05:02,069 --> 01:05:00,400
thomas wilson refer to you as dishonest

1586
01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:02,079
uh you don't have to talk to others

1587
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:04,079
about that i

1588
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:07,359
i don't even know how to address it

1589
01:05:14,390 --> 01:05:11,440
i know wilson said didn't happen

1590
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:14,400
and do you believe that that

1591
01:05:19,109 --> 01:05:17,119
uh i don't know how to address that i

1592
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:19,119
wasn't there certainly

1593
01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:25,829
and yeah again

1594
01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:28,400
i was surprised to see that actually

1595
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:30,240
introduced in the congressional hearing

1596
01:05:36,549 --> 01:05:32,240
so

1597
01:06:18,630 --> 01:05:37,430
i

1598
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,640
called back to headquarters november

1599
01:06:22,150 --> 01:06:20,799
site was down 10 for 10 so it's even

1600
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:22,160
greater than that

1601
01:06:27,349 --> 01:06:24,720
it is of great significance if you

1602
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:27,359
understand the nuclear triad you're

1603
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:29,680
dealing with things

1604
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:32,480
of strategic importance

1605
01:06:35,750 --> 01:06:33,440
uh

1606
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:35,760
and i also point out

1607
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:37,760
that um

1608
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:41,440
soviets soviets at that time had

1609
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:44,000
other incidents that were similar but

1610
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:46,000
interactions with their nuclear

1611
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:47,599
facilities

1612
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:51,520
that were equally scary

1613
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:54,240
a question from louis g luigi asks

1614
01:06:59,349 --> 01:06:56,079
you've said that roswell was a secret

1615
01:07:03,510 --> 01:06:59,359
project is this speculation or informed

1616
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:10,950
yeah i don't understand the question

1617
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:13,270
so your opinion on roswell obviously

1618
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:15,599
i've not got luigi here to ask him to to

1619
01:07:19,109 --> 01:07:17,280
reframe the question and that's the

1620
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:19,119
wording but

1621
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:22,480
what's your opinion on the roswell crash

1622
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:24,640
well i'll give you my take

1623
01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:26,240
and this is one that gets me into

1624
01:07:31,430 --> 01:07:29,359
trouble because no matter what you do

1625
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:31,440
the data from roswell

1626
01:07:35,829 --> 01:07:33,680
never all fit

1627
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:35,839
having said that a

1628
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:39,200
i am sure an incident happened

1629
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:43,119
b i'm equally sure that it was ours

1630
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:46,880
and yes it was super super super secret

1631
01:07:53,190 --> 01:07:48,160
and i

1632
01:07:56,549 --> 01:07:53,200
explained it has a terrestrial name and

1633
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:56,559
the material the secret materials

1634
01:07:59,750 --> 01:07:57,920
um

1635
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:59,760
talked to bill burns about this guy

1636
01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:01,680
sorry i'm on a program

1637
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:03,599
and they had one where they brought in

1638
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:05,920
some thin films and they set it down and

1639
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:08,000
they had two people one of them was

1640
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:10,640
jessie mitchell jr who i think was

1641
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:13,359
absolutely straight arrow

1642
01:08:18,709 --> 01:08:15,839
and one of the staff sergeant who we

1643
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:18,719
believe had their hands on the material

1644
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:21,359
and they walked in and said have you you

1645
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:23,920
know do you see the material here and

1646
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:26,719
they both went yes and pointed to the

1647
01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:29,199
same thing and it absolutely existed in

1648
01:08:38,789 --> 01:08:36,229
so in your opinion

1649
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:38,799
it was very much u.s led

1650
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:41,920
it was a secret project absolutely of

1651
01:08:49,510 --> 01:08:44,159
strategic importance

1652
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:51,829
fort worth dallas fort worth was

1653
01:08:55,349 --> 01:08:53,279
switched

1654
01:08:57,749 --> 01:08:55,359
because they knew

1655
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:57,759
that the soviets would be watching this

1656
01:09:02,550 --> 01:08:59,600
had to do

1657
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:02,560
well i'll tell you what it was it was

1658
01:09:07,829 --> 01:09:06,000
the critical issue at that time was when

1659
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:07,839
was the soviets gonna pop their first

1660
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:08,960
nuke

1661
01:09:14,229 --> 01:09:11,440
because until that time we were the only

1662
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:14,239
one that had a nuclear weapon

1663
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:17,440
and it was absolutely imperative that we

1664
01:09:22,229 --> 01:09:19,520
understand

1665
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:22,239
when they had crossed that threshold

1666
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:26,080
because it changes the geopolitical

1667
01:09:31,510 --> 01:09:28,159
side of the world

1668
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:31,520
and uh it had to do with sensory systems

1669
01:09:36,229 --> 01:09:33,040
that uh

1670
01:09:39,030 --> 01:09:36,239
that's what they were looking for

1671
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:39,040
question from jean francois he says mr

1672
01:09:44,229 --> 01:09:42,080
alexander you've said that you're 98

1673
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:44,239
sure the u.s government is not in

1674
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:46,960
possession of non-human technology can

1675
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:53,669
well that's fairly definitive

1676
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:54,170
um

1677
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:55,520
[Music]

1678
01:10:00,709 --> 01:09:57,920
i've seen the stuff on meta materials

1679
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:00,719
and the problem with almost all the

1680
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:02,800
samples i'm familiar with is the

1681
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:04,159
providence

1682
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:07,679
and it was where did it really come from

1683
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:10,080
and a lot of work being done looking at

1684
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,520
some things have interesting

1685
01:10:15,669 --> 01:10:13,280
characteristics

1686
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:19,990
what i'm 100 sure of is we have not done

1687
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:21,840
reverse engineering

1688
01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:23,920
and are flying

1689
01:10:29,430 --> 01:10:27,120
you know craft around or

1690
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:29,440
interspace or

1691
01:10:34,630 --> 01:10:31,520
you know

1692
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:34,640
anyplace else in intergalactic travel or

1693
01:10:40,390 --> 01:10:37,360
in there and my point

1694
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:40,400
is that if we understood

1695
01:10:45,270 --> 01:10:42,800
ufos at that point

1696
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:45,280
flying things around would be relatively

1697
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:46,560
trivial

1698
01:10:52,070 --> 01:10:49,280
the point there and you know what we

1699
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:52,080
discussed earlier energy

1700
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:54,400
you would have to understand a

1701
01:11:00,630 --> 01:10:58,480
fundamental different source of energy

1702
01:11:02,709 --> 01:11:00,640
and that changes the world

1703
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,719
and you do not see that

1704
01:11:07,669 --> 01:11:04,880
and the other thing is even if you have

1705
01:11:10,830 --> 01:11:07,679
zero point whatever you want look at

1706
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:10,840
if you look at what it's taking to

1707
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:12,560
integrate

1708
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:13,600
you know

1709
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:15,360
solar energy

1710
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,360
electric cars a great one that's coming

1711
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:18,960
along now

1712
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:21,280
it's going to take decades to actually

1713
01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:23,199
integrate that to where it becomes

1714
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:24,960
standard

1715
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:27,120
university available and all that so if

1716
01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:30,000
you had some other energy source

1717
01:11:35,430 --> 01:11:32,320
if i had a pound of unobtanium that

1718
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,440
could get a you know a million miles per

1719
01:11:40,630 --> 01:11:37,520
pound

1720
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:40,640
you couldn't put in your car

1721
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:43,120
it wouldn't turn the crankshaft

1722
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:46,239
so there's so much that goes beyond that

1723
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:49,280
and so i'm absolutely sure that we have

1724
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:50,480
not seen

1725
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:52,000
those sorts of things and make those

1726
01:11:57,510 --> 01:11:54,480
kind of advances

1727
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:57,520
we change the geopolitical situation

1728
01:12:02,070 --> 01:11:59,520
and do a lot towards stability in the

1729
01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:02,080
world actually

1730
01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:04,239
absolutely a question from the tree of

1731
01:12:10,229 --> 01:12:07,600
life what phenomena from mr alexander's

1732
01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:10,239
time working with stubblebane's psychic

1733
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:13,120
spies stood out most to him and also

1734
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:14,719
what's your take on the mechanics of

1735
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:22,070
excuse me no you're okay

1736
01:12:34,830 --> 01:12:23,440
i

1737
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:34,840
does

1738
01:12:41,350 --> 01:12:38,239
work the closeness that i heard that

1739
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:41,360
made a lot of sense if you know bob john

1740
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:43,040
would be in the dean school of

1741
01:12:47,430 --> 01:12:45,120
engineering at princeton

1742
01:12:50,950 --> 01:12:47,440
and we were in a meeting

1743
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:50,960
i was actually at uh

1744
01:12:56,070 --> 01:12:53,760
office of naval research at the time

1745
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:56,080
and these sorts of things came up and

1746
01:12:59,750 --> 01:12:57,840
what they're saying again it gets back

1747
01:13:02,070 --> 01:12:59,760
to a consciousness thing

1748
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:02,080
or that what you're doing is information

1749
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:03,840
because one of the questions that comes

1750
01:13:08,229 --> 01:13:06,640
up is where does the energy come from if

1751
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:08,239
you were assuming

1752
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:09,360
that uh

1753
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:11,440
energy can either be created or

1754
01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:14,000
destroyed is it worth the energy that

1755
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:15,360
makes it better

1756
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:17,040
and he says well i think it's simpler

1757
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:18,480
than that

1758
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:20,560
what's actually happening is it's the

1759
01:13:23,990 --> 01:13:22,640
information that tells the spoon to be

1760
01:13:25,830 --> 01:13:24,000
able to spoon

1761
01:13:27,350 --> 01:13:25,840
and that changes

1762
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:27,360
and

1763
01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:29,440
allows the spoon to move

1764
01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:31,280
i think what they're asking is you know

1765
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:33,440
in terms of you know cloud bursting

1766
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:34,960
remote viewing and these various

1767
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:37,920
different types of you know

1768
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:40,000
phenomena is there one you particularly

1769
01:13:45,030 --> 01:13:42,640
find most intriguing

1770
01:13:46,709 --> 01:13:45,040
no i'll go back to

1771
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:46,719
my comment again when i'm doing

1772
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:49,360
presentations and that is that

1773
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:50,719
these are all

1774
01:13:55,830 --> 01:13:52,480
interrelated

1775
01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:55,840
and that consciousness is obviously

1776
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:02,790
that consciousness idea is one that i

1777
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:04,960
think more and more people yeah i like

1778
01:14:09,030 --> 01:14:07,120
to discuss now that it's you know again

1779
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:09,040
that connectivity between people you've

1780
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:10,880
mentioned the universe and

1781
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,320
everything being connected would

1782
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:14,560
certainly make a lot more sense a

1783
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:17,120
question from nathan he asks if you

1784
01:14:21,189 --> 01:14:18,400
could go back

1785
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:21,199
and change how we study this phenomenon

1786
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:23,360
from the beginning how would you change

1787
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:24,320
things

1788
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:35,350
i again that's that's a really tough

1789
01:14:38,870 --> 01:14:37,600
question i'm not sure you would change

1790
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:38,880
it

1791
01:14:42,950 --> 01:14:41,520
but you have to look at

1792
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:42,960
these things progress you've got to

1793
01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:45,520
understand this is a constant

1794
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:46,960
progression

1795
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,600
and so things are built one on the other

1796
01:14:54,870 --> 01:14:51,600
and so it's not until you start to

1797
01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:54,880
understand pieces of it that you say oh

1798
01:14:59,270 --> 01:14:57,280
i would change something else so if you

1799
01:15:01,189 --> 01:14:59,280
went back and changed it fundamentally

1800
01:15:02,390 --> 01:15:01,199
back here i'm not sure that would have

1801
01:15:04,310 --> 01:15:02,400
helped

1802
01:15:07,189 --> 01:15:04,320
um at all

1803
01:15:08,870 --> 01:15:07,199
that this is

1804
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,880
science and when that is actually a

1805
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:10,560
process

1806
01:15:14,550 --> 01:15:12,080
and that

1807
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:14,560
i'll get very political here

1808
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:16,640
um one of the things i was concerned

1809
01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:18,320
about in the middle east is when we

1810
01:15:22,870 --> 01:15:20,480
started talking about we're going to

1811
01:15:23,830 --> 01:15:22,880
create democracies

1812
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:23,840
and

1813
01:15:28,229 --> 01:15:26,400
now democratization is a process or

1814
01:15:29,350 --> 01:15:28,239
certain steps that you have to go

1815
01:15:31,990 --> 01:15:29,360
through

1816
01:15:33,430 --> 01:15:32,000
in order to create the democracy you

1817
01:15:35,430 --> 01:15:33,440
have achieved that

1818
01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:35,440
i think the same thing is true in many

1819
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:37,600
of these science issues there are

1820
01:15:42,390 --> 01:15:39,920
certain steps that you've got to go

1821
01:15:44,950 --> 01:15:42,400
through to get there you can't just

1822
01:15:46,630 --> 01:15:44,960
you know jump and make quantum leaps to

1823
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:46,640
the end product

1824
01:15:51,669 --> 01:15:48,800
without understanding it

1825
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:51,679
i'll give an example

1826
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:54,560
nuclear weapons and i was at los alamos

1827
01:15:58,390 --> 01:15:56,960
national laboratory which is a nuclear

1828
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:58,400
weapons lab

1829
01:16:02,550 --> 01:15:59,760
and

1830
01:16:03,430 --> 01:16:02,560
we're looking at a number of things

1831
01:16:05,590 --> 01:16:03,440
and

1832
01:16:08,070 --> 01:16:05,600
has come to other countries were

1833
01:16:09,750 --> 01:16:08,080
developing this was late

1834
01:16:12,149 --> 01:16:09,760
maybe 90s

1835
01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:12,159
looking at countries kind of stumbling

1836
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:14,239
around

1837
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,040
and

1838
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:16,960
our our scientists are looking at that

1839
01:16:22,950 --> 01:16:20,400
that makes no sense what's so ill why in

1840
01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:22,960
the world were they doing that

1841
01:16:28,149 --> 01:16:25,360
and they went to gordon sumner who had

1842
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,159
hired many of the original

1843
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:30,719
nuclear scientists that worked with it

1844
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:33,360
they go oh yeah that's what we did in

1845
01:16:36,870 --> 01:16:35,040
other words you had to go through this

1846
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:36,880
process you couldn't just

1847
01:16:40,709 --> 01:16:39,840
jump out to the end product

1848
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:40,719
the

1849
01:16:45,830 --> 01:16:41,920
process

1850
01:16:50,630 --> 01:16:48,470
question from bob mcguire bob attended

1851
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:50,640
the scu event that you were part of

1852
01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:53,760
recently and he mentions eric davis uh

1853
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:55,760
was uh someone you spoke to apparently

1854
01:17:00,709 --> 01:16:58,480
outside for around 20 minutes and bob

1855
01:17:02,550 --> 01:17:00,719
mentions what was eric upset about and

1856
01:17:04,950 --> 01:17:02,560
is that a conversation you can shed any

1857
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:04,960
light on

1858
01:17:10,229 --> 01:17:07,920
um what would be upset about

1859
01:17:12,390 --> 01:17:10,239
i don't know i'll give bob a call if you

1860
01:17:14,229 --> 01:17:12,400
want to

1861
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:14,239
that's when you can get filled in on

1862
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:16,800
potentially later on um that's a very

1863
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:18,239
interesting event with a lot of very

1864
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:20,239
interesting players at that event as

1865
01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:22,400
well i saw the the pictures online and i

1866
01:17:25,669 --> 01:17:23,840
would love to get over to one of those

1867
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:25,679
myself in the future

1868
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:26,480
um

1869
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:28,000
the next question john it's a little bit

1870
01:17:32,470 --> 01:17:30,000
of a longer one so bear with me but i've

1871
01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:32,480
got some context behind it this is from

1872
01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:35,120
james ian doley uh from engaging the

1873
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:36,640
phenomena channel

1874
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:38,400
and he's asked if i can ask you about

1875
01:17:44,470 --> 01:17:40,960
the alleged stephen grier stubble bind

1876
01:17:46,709 --> 01:17:44,480
meeting or encounter at the 1992 treat

1877
01:17:48,950 --> 01:17:46,719
event and a treat event as treatment and

1878
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:48,960
research and to experience anomalous

1879
01:17:52,470 --> 01:17:50,080
trauma

1880
01:17:54,630 --> 01:17:52,480
um james has a post on his youtube

1881
01:17:57,189 --> 01:17:54,640
channel about this people can check out

1882
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,199
um on that there's claims that several

1883
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:58,800
intelligence community officials

1884
01:18:03,189 --> 01:18:00,239
including yourself

1885
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:03,199
spoke to dr greer in a hotel room and he

1886
01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:05,600
was offered either millions of dollars

1887
01:18:12,149 --> 01:18:08,480
up front or access to this money for

1888
01:18:14,149 --> 01:18:12,159
funding but it couldn't go public um you

1889
01:18:16,310 --> 01:18:14,159
commented on the video yourself on

1890
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:16,320
youtube actually around seven months ago

1891
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:18,560
saying the event happened but the rest

1892
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:19,920
is bs

1893
01:18:24,390 --> 01:18:21,760
and follow-up to james asking if a

1894
01:18:27,510 --> 01:18:24,400
private meeting did happen with dr greer

1895
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:27,520
um can you confirm this or not

1896
01:18:34,470 --> 01:18:30,400
what i confirm is i did say it was

1897
01:18:37,189 --> 01:18:34,480
[\h__\h] and it it absolutely is

1898
01:18:40,870 --> 01:18:37,199
nobody offered him anything we were kind

1899
01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:40,880
of surprised burke subtle wine was there

1900
01:18:44,790 --> 01:18:42,719
and

1901
01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:44,800
i think this was one in mesquite where

1902
01:18:47,990 --> 01:18:47,120
he suddenly burst on the scene

1903
01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:48,000
uh

1904
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:49,760
i don't know of anybody who offered him

1905
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:53,040
a time for anything

1906
01:18:56,709 --> 01:18:55,199
and thanks for that and i appreciate you

1907
01:18:59,430 --> 01:18:56,719
listening to that longer question as

1908
01:19:01,990 --> 01:18:59,440
well and uh thanks to james for sending

1909
01:19:05,270 --> 01:19:02,000
it in and final question from eric

1910
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:05,280
can you share any details of any service

1911
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:08,400
men or women being injured by uap that

1912
01:19:16,630 --> 01:19:14,310
well

1913
01:19:23,270 --> 01:19:19,910
easy answer would be no

1914
01:19:25,510 --> 01:19:23,280
the other there's a case oh

1915
01:19:29,910 --> 01:19:25,520
oh what's the famous case

1916
01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:29,920
i think over ohio were a uh

1917
01:19:34,470 --> 01:19:33,600
aircraft this was fairly early on

1918
01:19:37,510 --> 01:19:34,480
but

1919
01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:37,520
did not have enough

1920
01:19:41,430 --> 01:19:38,800
you know

1921
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:41,440
oxygen life support systems that went up

1922
01:19:45,430 --> 01:19:43,920
there and supposedly went out of control

1923
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:45,440
and crashed

1924
01:19:49,750 --> 01:19:48,080
and highly controversial as to what had

1925
01:19:51,910 --> 01:19:49,760
caused

1926
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:51,920
that to crash so that certainly would be

1927
01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:55,040
uh on a specific example

1928
01:20:04,630 --> 01:20:03,030
i guess one of the things i would

1929
01:20:05,910 --> 01:20:04,640
recommend to people

1930
01:20:08,790 --> 01:20:05,920
interested in

1931
01:20:13,350 --> 01:20:11,270
particularly from skinwalker ranch and

1932
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:13,360
one of the big issues has been the

1933
01:20:18,390 --> 01:20:15,760
hitchhiker effect

1934
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:18,400
in other people now i will say i have

1935
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:19,199
not

1936
01:20:22,709 --> 01:20:21,600
had that problem but i do know several

1937
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:22,719
people

1938
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:24,480
who have

1939
01:20:27,990 --> 01:20:25,280
uh

1940
01:20:30,629 --> 01:20:28,000
now if you because that's not directly

1941
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:30,639
ufos but i would recommend

1942
01:20:36,550 --> 01:20:33,280
skin walkers in the pentagon

1943
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:36,560
there's a book that uh mccaskey colin

1944
01:20:41,189 --> 01:20:39,040
callahar and george knapp wrote that one

1945
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:41,199
up

1946
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:44,159
yeah not someone yet and uh i had a

1947
01:20:48,470 --> 01:20:46,400
chance to talk to axelrod

1948
01:20:50,870 --> 01:20:48,480
and uh

1949
01:20:53,830 --> 01:20:50,880
you know the thing now i'll give you the

1950
01:20:56,149 --> 01:20:53,840
downside of where that all goes people

1951
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:56,159
don't realize they talk about the

1952
01:21:03,510 --> 01:21:00,560
uap program in the pentagon and

1953
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:03,520
you know the incidents with the various

1954
01:21:12,149 --> 01:21:08,709
all true and straightforward

1955
01:21:14,390 --> 01:21:12,159
this program well offsaf

1956
01:21:15,590 --> 01:21:14,400
really started

1957
01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:15,600
uh

1958
01:21:20,310 --> 01:21:17,679
because of

1959
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:20,320
georgian columns earlier book

1960
01:21:24,709 --> 01:21:23,199
on hunt for the skid walker

1961
01:21:27,750 --> 01:21:24,719
in other words they were looking for

1962
01:21:28,150 --> 01:21:27,760
creepy crawlers so it was not restricted

1963
01:21:29,430 --> 01:21:28,160
to

1964
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:29,440
[Music]

1965
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:30,560
uh

1966
01:21:36,149 --> 01:21:33,920
you know looking for ufos per se

1967
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:36,159
i think from a political perspective

1968
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:39,840
this is very very dangerous

1969
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:42,800
again the political ramifications are to

1970
01:21:46,390 --> 01:21:44,400
say

1971
01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:46,400
you want to fund money to hunt

1972
01:21:51,030 --> 01:21:48,080
werewolves

1973
01:21:54,550 --> 01:21:51,040
and again you get from

1974
01:21:58,070 --> 01:21:54,560
if i were in opposition research i'd say

1975
01:22:01,430 --> 01:21:58,080
you know marco wants to uh fund fund

1976
01:22:02,950 --> 01:22:01,440
werewolf studies and he he won't fund uh

1977
01:22:04,070 --> 01:22:02,960
children's health

1978
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:04,080
uh so

1979
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:05,840
whatever the issue that that one

1980
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:25,669
it belongs in in the civilian sector

1981
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:29,520
that's certainly what brandon is doing

1982
01:22:37,669 --> 01:22:35,669
that's kind of rambling i guess

1983
01:22:40,550 --> 01:22:37,679
the answer i mean the short answer is i

1984
01:22:44,310 --> 01:22:40,560
don't know of anybody who's been burned

1985
01:22:45,910 --> 01:22:44,320
but we do know of people and kent has

1986
01:22:48,229 --> 01:22:45,920
looked at

1987
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:48,239
i think around 300 now

1988
01:22:52,950 --> 01:22:50,800
of people who've had but this is from

1989
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:52,960
interactions

1990
01:22:57,189 --> 01:22:54,960
you know the secondary and tertiary

1991
01:23:00,070 --> 01:22:57,199
effects if you will as opposed to i got

1992
01:23:02,470 --> 01:23:00,080
burned by the ufos and there are cases

1993
01:23:05,110 --> 01:23:02,480
of individuals who have had radiation

1994
01:23:07,189 --> 01:23:05,120
growth uh the most classic i think is

1995
01:23:09,830 --> 01:23:07,199
cash landrieu

1996
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:09,840
you go back to 1980

1997
01:23:15,590 --> 01:23:12,719
uh absolutely happened

1998
01:23:18,790 --> 01:23:15,600
their story was highly credible

1999
01:23:21,030 --> 01:23:18,800
in that they uh the amount of radio

2000
01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:21,040
the damn physical damage that occurred

2001
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:24,719
to them is directly proportional to this

2002
01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:26,320
you know their

2003
01:23:30,149 --> 01:23:27,760
study

2004
01:23:32,470 --> 01:23:30,159
was

2005
01:23:34,390 --> 01:23:32,480
cash got out got in front of the car she

2006
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:34,400
had whole body radiation

2007
01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:36,719
died from leukemia later

2008
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:37,760
uh

2009
01:23:41,830 --> 01:23:39,360
one room was

2010
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:41,840
behind the door didn't get as much

2011
01:23:46,390 --> 01:23:44,239
cody the little boy got three things

2012
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:46,400
saying ran around jumped back

2013
01:23:50,390 --> 01:23:47,520
and

2014
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:50,400
those two who were shielded had less

2015
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:52,080
radiation

2016
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:55,199
so that they were physically exposed to

2017
01:23:58,950 --> 01:23:56,080
some

2018
01:24:01,350 --> 01:23:58,960
radiation is absolutely certain

2019
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:01,360
um

2020
01:24:06,950 --> 01:24:03,280
but the helicopters weren't ours like

2021
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:08,870
john it's been a fascinating discussion

2022
01:24:12,229 --> 01:24:10,400
with you and i've appreciated your time

2023
01:24:14,629 --> 01:24:12,239
you've been very very generous and again

2024
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:14,639
thank you for for rescheduling there was

2025
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:16,400
a whole lot of questions i was sent over

2026
01:24:19,750 --> 01:24:18,080
that i never got to so hopefully in the

2027
01:24:21,189 --> 01:24:19,760
near future we can we can get to those

2028
01:24:23,270 --> 01:24:21,199
at some point and get those answered as

2029
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:23,280
well if you would do me the honor and

2030
01:24:26,550 --> 01:24:25,040
john just before we finish up is there

2031
01:24:27,910 --> 01:24:26,560
anything you're working on at the moment

2032
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:27,920
that uh have you got any more books

2033
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:29,679
coming out or any appearances coming up

2034
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:32,239
you can let anyone know of

2035
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:33,520
no

2036
01:24:42,070 --> 01:24:39,110
as i'm very concerned about where the

2037
01:24:45,350 --> 01:24:42,080
world's going at the moment

2038
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:45,360
i think that american democracy is in

2039
01:24:50,550 --> 01:24:48,000
deep trouble and

2040
01:24:52,950 --> 01:24:50,560
you know where this all goes good luck

2041
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:52,960
with boris and uh following on there in

2042
01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:54,960
the uk yeah i was going to say we we

2043
01:24:58,390 --> 01:24:56,480
can't comment in the uk at the minute

2044
01:25:01,030 --> 01:24:58,400
about anyone's political state given

2045
01:25:02,629 --> 01:25:01,040
what's going on here so it's uh

2046
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:02,639
it's um it's all a bit of a mess all

2047
01:25:07,110 --> 01:25:05,040
worldwide but at least we've got the ufo

2048
01:25:08,790 --> 01:25:07,120
subject to talk about to to take our

2049
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:08,800
minds off something else for a while but

2050
01:25:12,870 --> 01:25:10,320
john again thank you very much for your

2051
01:25:15,030 --> 01:25:12,880
time that is all for this week's show

2052
01:25:17,189 --> 01:25:15,040
thank you very much for listening please

2053
01:25:19,669 --> 01:25:17,199
remember to leave the podcast review on

2054
01:25:21,990 --> 01:25:19,679
your chosen platform you can like

2055
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:22,000
retweet and subscribe that would all be

2056
01:25:26,070 --> 01:25:23,920
very much appreciated the shows are

2057
01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:26,080
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

2058
01:25:30,070 --> 01:25:27,600
more and more you can sign up at

2059
01:25:32,790 --> 01:25:30,080
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

2060
01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:32,800
podcast to access shows ad free as well

2061
01:25:37,830 --> 01:25:35,040
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2062
01:25:41,030 --> 01:25:37,840
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

2063
01:25:43,189 --> 01:25:41,040
twitter it's at ufo ufouapam

2064
01:25:45,740 --> 01:25:43,199
and again folks as always keep looking

2065
01:26:04,070 --> 01:25:45,750
up you never know what you might see

2066
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:16,460
[Music]

2067
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:23,750
i can't imagine how it could have been

2068
01:26:48,950 --> 01:26:44,390
there was something on my head and

2069
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:56,100
it was a everything

2070
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:01,660
[Music]

2071
01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:25,420
for being serious

2072
01:27:37,610 --> 01:27:31,790
[Music]

2073
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:37,620
foreign

2074
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:48,480
[Music]

2075
01:28:06,149 --> 01:27:50,690
foreign

2076
01:28:06,159 --> 01:28:10,970
so